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Updated 07 Mar 2015

Questions on WA1500

what the alternative positions will be in Service, could you please advise

Commands after ‘STOP…UNLOAD’

‘Casing’ Pistols

WA1500 - Load when changing position

Use of luminous and/or fibre optic sights

Number of rounds loaded – International 1920 Match

WA1500

Grip Safeties

Position of 10m paper targets in the target carrier

WA1500 - Reloading when changing positions

25 Yards BP RF Stage without loading benches

Sight Ribs / 25 Yards Service Pistol

Holster Safety

Holster Belt Loops

 

Load too many pellets in Air Pistol

‘Coated’ projectiles

25M ISSF – when must the shooter be at the READY

Re: order of fire for barricade series – Service and wa1500

Re: with the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the re-shoot?

Re: can you shorten the cylinder on a 25 Yard service pistol?

Re: 5-shot Air Pistols

Re electronic hearing protection

Re ‘blinders’ for ISSF competitions (see also latest on blinders)

Re: Tennis elbow & support bands on the arm                

Re: What’s happening to Rapid Fire Pistol             REVISED

Re: Loading procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder:          REVISED                     

Re:  Reshoots after a Non-allowable Malfunction   REVISED

Re: Checking trigger weight

 

 

Questions on WA1500 <from the 2013 World Championships, Perth>

Hi Spencer

More clarification questions.

Picking up speed loader, you applied a 60 point penalty (10 points each shot fired)

Where is that written, because I will be asked.

Response:

There are no ‘points’ penalties in WA1500; all/any incorrectly fired shots are “deducted from the shooter’s target.  To do so, shots of highest value equal to the number fired in error are scored as misses”.

While shots fired from a speedloader or magazine picked up is not specified in Section 15 – Penalties, we have received clear notification from Friedrich Storrer that this is the procedure to be followed.

When we started shooting wa1500, the message was no equipment between the shooter and firing line.

At Perth various shooters had bags, boxes and the like in front of them to drop brass and loaders into.

Response:

This was certainly the procedure in the past on ranges in Germany, but has not been included in the current rules.

The only thing I have found in the rules mentioned no electronic devises. One Austrian shooter would put his stopwatch on the barricade each time.

It was held on by Velcro tape?

So what is the correct procedure nothing in front of the shooter or ?

Response:

There was more than one shooter doing this – see previous response.

 

What the alternative positions will be in Service, could you please advise.

Hi Spencer,

…what the alternative positions will be in Service, could you please advise.

 

Response:

At the October 2012 ECM, ‘inclusivity’ provisions (6.1.12++) were added to the PA Service Pistol group of events.  The wording of the added rules is basically the same as has been in force for NRA and WA1500 events.

 

No procedure or guidelines have been provided: presumably the Judges will be ‘meat in the sandwich’, though I feel that PA coaches with their greater knowledge of physiology should be involved.

 

In effect, if due a disability (temporary or permanent) a shooter cannot adopt a specified position, the shooter may assume a more difficult substitute position.  Any substitute position must conform to the rule which defines it. 

There is a bit more to it, in that for a ‘permanent’ disability the shooter petitions PA; for a ‘temporary’ disability, the shooter should approach the competition Jury.

Some guidance examples:

Shooter cannot ‘go prone’ at 50yards

-          Shoots first series from sitting or prone

Shooter unable to fire shots with the ‘weak’ hand

-          Shoots with strong hand

Shooter in wheelchair

-          Shoots from wheelchair. 

 

·         Foremost wheel of chair behind the firing line

·         ‘prone’, may have support from chair arms or a table

·         ‘sitting/kneeling’, may have support from one elbow

·         ‘without support’, no support from the chair arms or table

·         50yd and 25yd 12-shot series from ‘barricade’, from one side

I expect that with the passage of time a set of precedents will arise.

 

If you are making a decision on ‘assume a more difficult substitute position’, please jot down the particular circumstances and your decision and forward to PA.

 

Commands after ‘STOP…UNLOAD’

 

Spencer,

there have been some questions about range commands in service pistol which I am not qualified to answer.

After "unload" is called at the completion of the match, what if any, are the remaining commands/instructions given by the RO  ?

Regards,

 

Response:

With the PA Service group of events, the last command is ‘STOP ... UNLOAD’.  As with any other event, on completion of the ‘stage’/event there is then an individual inspection of the  firearms (and notification of any infringements in the string) for each of the shooters in the relay, but no further formal commands.

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

Fibre optic inserts in sights

 

Hi Spencer

I regard to wa1500 “Open sights” can fibre optic inserts be used?

Regards

 

Response:

The ‘short answer’ is yes’.

The ‘longer answer’ is:

·         Shooters should be aware that Tritium inserts have some health concerns and are banned in some EU countries (due to OHS concerns)

·         This goes further than only the WA1500 events: fibre optic inserts are allowed in any event (subject to any ‘Production’ categories that may be applicable)

 

(I cannot resist the desire to comment from a coaching POV:

1.     Fibre-optic inserts undoubtedly have a place for use in low-light and close-range personal defence situations – these are not the situations encountered in PA events

2.     Fibre-optic inserts in the rear sight would be counter-productive for target use)

 

Spencer

 

‘Casing’ Pistols (7 mar 09)

 

Hi Spencer,

 

For the purposes of "When/where may a pistol be taken out of its case?"

(http://www.nrc-pa.com/issf.htm#_When/where_may_a), does a fully enclosing pistol "glove" qualify as a "case"?

 

In other words, is it acceptable practice for a shooter, having had their pistol 'cleared to remove' by the RO, to:

  • place the pistol in a 'glove' that, when zipped or otherwise fastened, fully encloses the pistol;
  • zip the 'glove' up with the pistol inside;
  • take the 'glove ' (with the pistol inside) to a larger case on the range but behind the shooter's bay; and
  • without removing the pistol from the 'glove', place the 'glove' in the other case and secure the case before removing it from the range?

 

Response:

No caveats - yes.

 

Spencer

 

WA1500 - Load when changing position

 

Dear Spencer,

 

I have a question if you could answer it please.

Under the WA1500 rules and European accepted practice (NRA PPC too) when moving positions, it is allow reload in either position, before or after moving.  It is not stipulated.

 

I am told we are insisting on the reload to be done in the new position.  Is this right? 

I thought the intent with international matches was to use the international rules for operational aspects with perhaps local or admin items covered with local regulations. 

 

Response:

The requirement for PA ‘service’/WA1500 events is for the shooter to change position with a visibly empty firearm, i.e. ‘change position – and then load’.

 

While the PA Service events and WA1500 have their origins in various Police and Services events, they are civilian target events.

From memory, for some Police and Services events (such as the Dunlop Shield) ‘load – then change position’ is the required procedure: presumably to replicate the situation in a fire-fight.  Our events have no such aspirations, real or implied.

The ‘load – then change position’ procedure was eliminated from the PA events, even in the formative stage of the development of the PA Service Event:

·         Primarily as unsafe for most target shooters, and

·         Having no rationale in a civilian target event. 

 

The ‘change position – then load’ required for PA events is not in conflict with the WA1500 rules, and will not cause any disadvantage for PA shooters competing internationally in WA1500..

 

Spencer

 

 

Use of luminous and/or fibre optic sights

 

Can luminous and/or fibre optic sights be used in PA events?

 

Response

 

 

Re inquiry on use of TruGlo tritium, tritium/fiber optic and fiber optic handgun sights in PA events


 

Sights incorporating various ‘light gathering’ inserts have been around for many decades.

 

Tritium inserts are the combination of Tritium (a radioactive isotope of hydrogen) and a phosphor to provide a light emitting insert – many luminous applications are in use (e.g. luminous watch dials, various novelty items, etc.) are produced using this combination.

It should be noted that there are a number of safety concerns relating to Tritium/phosphor devices.  There is a ban in several EU countries on the inclusion of radio-active materials into common goods like watches, etc. and in these countries tritium sights are forbidden to sell, to own, to use, to import and to export: this would preclude their use by an Australian competitor at any competition within these countries.

 

I offer no advice on the suitability for PA competitions of sights incorporating inserts of light transmitting or generating materials, other than to suggest that they can always be covered with sight black.

 

The manufacturer’s illustrations of the sights do not appear to have any adjustments for windage or elevation and this aspect might be of concern to some Firearms Registries.

 

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Compliance with the relevant competition rules of ‘open sights’ incorporating light gathering and/or luminous inserts.

 

ISSF Pistol

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the ISSF pistol rules.

 

PA Service Pistol / Service Pistol Unrestricted / 25 Yards Service Pistol

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the PA ‘Service’ rules.

 

PA Black Powder

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the PA Black Powder rules.

 

IMSSU Pistol

·         Production

I am unaware of any ‘Production’ pistol used for IMSSU that incorporates these sights, and any replacement sights would need to comply with the Production class rules

·         Unlimited

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the IMSSU pistol rules.

·         Field Pistol

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the IMSSU pistol rules.

 

International 1920 Match

·         Open

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the Bianchi pistol rules.

·         Metallic Sight

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the Bianchi pistol rules.

·         Production

These sights would only be compliant for a pistol or revolver which is, or has been, a catalogue item readily available to the general public equipped with these sights.

 

WA1500

·         150-shot events

Technically there is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the WA1500 rules.

·         60-shot Distinguished Revolver

These sights would only be compliant for a pistol or revolver which is, or has been, a catalogue item readily available to the general public equipped with these sights.

·         60-shot Distinguished Semi-automatic

Open sights from any manufacturer are acceptable provided they of similar style to the original.  Whether the use of inserts could comply with “…similar style to the original…” would be a matter for the WA1500 to resolve: none were presented at the 2007 World Championships for this category with this type of sight inserts.

·         48-shot events are not included as these are not PA events at this time.

 

Spencer Tweedie

NRC Director


 

 

Number of rounds loaded – International 1920 Match

 

I am going to shoot NRA 1920 matches somebody brought up a good point

 

Are you limited in how many rounds you can load in your gun?

I am using a Smith and Wesson 686 plus which is a 7 shot revolver  can  i load all the cylinders ?

I was sure you could but somebody told me i am limited to 6

 

Response

 

There is no limit on the number of rounds you can load; indeed, some semi-auto shooters load 10 in each magazine.

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

WA1500

Spencer

I recently got hold of a copy of the NRA Rules pertaining to the 1500 match.

Two things stood out-(1) skid shots were allowed (within generous parameters), and (2) there did not appear to be any provision for penalties for foot faults, etc.

Was this the case in the recent Nationals, or were these transgressions treated as per Service Pistol?.

 

Response to WA1500

 

In order:

1.       One of the major problems is that there are not yet any ‘complete’ WA1500 Rules.  Further the NRA rulebooks are not as specific as we are accustomed with other shooting events.

2.       Skid shots are as for other NRA-based events; i.e., 1.5 x bullet diameter. (i.e. use the NRA-style overlays for scoring shot values and skid shots)

3.       Procedural Penalties, including Foot Faults are -10 (X)

These were the procedures for the Nationals

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

 

Could you let me know ASAP, as another competition 1500 Match is programmed to be shot in conjunction with the ASG.

 

 

Grip Safeties

 

Spencer

In regard to SA grip safeties, I had the idea that for 1920, PA was using the same rule as for Service Match.

Which is, as I was aware, safety de-activated , eg. by pining, not taped down.( this is for within Aust. )

Am I wrong & PA has adopted NRA all safeties must work? 

 

Response to Grip Safeties

 

PA took this up with our insurers, and has not been able to resolve the insurance issues.

In absence of any clear indication that the insurance will cover any disabled manufacturer’s safety feature (in this case the grip safety on 1911 type frames), PA has no option other than to continue with the requirement for 1920 Match (introduced as from 1 Jan 2006) that all safety features be operational.

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

Position of 10m paper targets in the target carrier

 

I have heard a rumour that a number of Air pistol shooters that when using

wind-back target carriages are placing another target (unused or old

sighter) behind the competition target and raising the competition target up

higher in the holder so as to get the base of the target away from any

distracting view of the target carriage base.

 

I thought that the practice of putting a target behind the competition

target was eliminated a few years ago, but apparantly is creeping back again

(noticed at Aus Cup I). Rule 6.3.5.1.1 "....no deviations in shooting

distances and target specifications..." and of course the general rule of

"no advantage..."

 

Your advice and comments please.

 

Position of 10m paper targets in the target carrier

 

Hi,

(for better, or worse) Accepted international ISSF practice has been to allow shooters to arrange 10m paper targets to suit - e.g. many rifle shooters put the target in rotated 45 degrees, and many pistol (and some rifle) shooters add a strip at the bottom.

Regarding 6.3.5.1.1, I don't think the thickness on one card would make a difference to the shooting distance, and as for target specifications 6.3.2.6 refers to the 'minimum visible size of target card'.

The only problem with this practice has been with shooters 'adjusting' the target carrier to accept the double target thickness and or hold the card in the higher position.  This does not always go down well with the poor sods that have to maintain the range equipment.

In short, lots of things in relation to rules are worth worrying about - provided the shooter/s do not damage the target carriers, this is not one of them.

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

WA1500 - Reloading when changing positions

 

Spencer,

With regard to the WA 1500 match, what is the current ruling (if any)on reloading positions?  As you know, in the PA Service Match, the competitor has to unload in the "old" position and then move to the "new" position, where he is to reload.  I am in the position of being a member of a club that shoots the Police & Services Match, in which we carry out the complete reload in the "old" position, so I have to be VERY careful when I shoot at other clubs!

Regards

 

Response to WA1500 - Reloading when changing positions

 

While the World Association 1500 website gives no indication in this area, certainly for the Australian introduction of the 150-shot matches, “…When changing position, the pistol must be obviously ‘clear’”, i.e. as for the PA Service matches.  This has been set out in the PA RO Guides for WA1500.

 

The difficulty of the difference between the ‘Police & Service’ and ‘PA Service’ procedures when changing position has been a long standing one (I remember it well).

The PA Service matches are civilian in nature; our normal condition for pistols is unloaded until needed, for ‘Police & Service’ the normal condition is loaded.  The different procedures reflect this background.

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

25 Yards BP RF Stage without loading benches

 

In Black Powder 25m rapid fire the new rules state;

'When using separate tables for loading - at the call of "Assume the Ready (position I assume) wait 30 seconds and then call "Attention" and activate.

When not using separate tables for loading - at the call of "Assume the Ready (position I assume again) wait 15 seconds and then call "Attention" and activate.

What has the position of tables, or using separate tables or not, have to do with the amount of time before calling "Attention" and activate.

I would appreciate clarification on this matter.  Thank you

 

Response to 25 Yards BP RF Stage without loading benches

 

1.         I must apologise for not answering the first e-mail (it came in on my laptop while away from home and I did not flag it for reply when I got back home)

2.         Change to commands for RF Stage of 25m Black Powder applies to both ‘at the bench’ and ‘separate tables behind’

 

When all shooters have loaded capped, placed their pistol in a safe condition on the bench, and stood back from the firing line,

“ASSUME THE READY”

 

 After 30 seconds,

“ATTENTION” and activate the targets

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

Sight Ribs / 25 Yards Service Pistol

 

With regard to the Service 25 yard match (formerly short barrel) there seems to be some controversy over the matter of equipment.

Could you please advise if rib sights may be fitted to custom made 25 yard Service guns?

Rib sights are a full length sight similar to those manufactured by Aristocrat.

There are several members of the club looking to have guns built and clearly they would like an interpretation of the rule before committing large sums of money on a gun that may end up being illegal.

Your early advice would be appreciated.

 

Response to Sight Ribs

 

When the 25 Yard Service Pistol rules were changed to reflect the changes to Australian firearms legislation, many of the previous rules on barrels were no longer applicable as there were a number of ‘heavy’ barrelled revolvers available ex factory.

 

Provided S25/ 4.1.4 Only open sights are allowed, and S25/ 4.1.4.1 Original factory pattern sights only are allowed, are met there is no problem with sight ribs.

 

Regards,

 

Spencer

 

 

 

Holster Safety

 

Hello,   

could you please tell me where i can find answers to holstered safety issues 1- placing mag in pistol while holstered.    2- after series leaving slide open in holster.   3- loading mags while people forward of line.

 

thank you.

 

Response to Holster Safety

You do not specify which holster match the questions relate to - given that holsters are used in a number of PA events, there is no ‘one’ answer to questions 2 and 3.

 

1-      Placing mag in pistol while holstered.

 

The short answer is no.

 

Service Pistol:

S 2.6 Loaded Pistols may be holstered only during and in accordance with the course of fire and under the direct command of the Range Officer. 

I.e. by implication from “…loaded pistols may be holstered…”, the pistol is loaded before holstering – not after.

 

Service Pistol Unrestricted and 25 Yards Service Pistol:

SU/S152.6 Loaded Pistols may NOT be holstered at any time. 

Inserting a magazine would be considered loading the pistol, even if the magazine was empty.

 

International 1920 Match:

Shooters reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before any personnel go forward for target changing.  The pistol is loaded before holstering, and not touched until the next series commences.

 

WA1500:

As for Service Pistol, there is a ‘LOAD’ command and shooters load and holster.  Service Pistol rule S 2.6 can be taken as applying.

 

 

2-      After series leaving slide open in holster.  

 

Service Pistol / Service Pistol Unrestricted / 25 Yards Service Pistol / WA1500:

I can see no safety problem with having the pistol with the slide open in the holster between the command ‘UNLOAD’ at the end of a series and the next command to ‘LOAD”.  Convenience would be another matter - I would not as the pistol could get dirt, lint, etc. in the action, and it would be a nuisance.

 

International 1920 Match:

Shooters reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before any personnel go forward for target changing

 

 

3-   Loading mags while people forward of line. 

 

Service Pistol / Service Pistol Unrestricted:

S/SU/ 6.2.2    Before the beginning of each subsequent stage the shooter must be allowed sufficient time to rearrange his equipment and reload magazines or speed loaders.

While the rules allow time before each ‘stage’ I can see no safety problem with loading magazines wile range personnel are forward of the firing line.

 

25 Yards Service Pistol:

S25/ 6.3.1.1         The competitor places only the correct number of rounds that are required for a particular stage, in a pocket (one only, and the same pocket throughout the course of fire).  The pocket must be standard for the garment worn, not an addition to accommodate ammunition for this competition.

No.  Magazines are loaded during the course of fire.

 

International 1920 Match / WA1500:

Shooters reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before any personnel go forward for target changing

 

 

Holster Belt Loops

 

What is the requirement on belt loops for holster matches, & where do I find them?

 

Response re Holster Belt Loops

 

The requirements for belt loops for PA Service Pistol were dropped several years ago when PA adopted the same requirements as for the Bianchi Cup competition.

 

The current Service Pistol holster equipment rules are listed below; while not word-for-word, they can be taken as applying to WA1500 and International 1920 Match.  While not separately mentioned, the belt for the holster obviously must be suitable to ensure that the holster is practical, safe, serviceable.

 

Note:

S/ 2.6.2                        Shooters must have successfully completed the PA safe handling holster course and have possession of a current proficiency card

 

S/ 4.2.6.1         Holsters must be practical, safe, serviceable, and suit the pistol used.

 

S/ 4.2.6.2         Cross draw and shoulder holsters are prohibited.

 

S/ 4.2.6.3         Tie down rigs, visible or otherwise, are prohibited.

 

S/ 4.2.6.4         If a retention device is used to pass a holster test, then the retention device must be used throughout the match.

 

S/ 4.2.6.5         Unsafe Holsters:

Match Officials are required to prohibit the unsafe use of any holster by any competitor. Therefore, in choosing a holster, and the position and manner in which it will be worn, a competitor should give due regard to the safety regulations in order to ensure that his choices are safely consistent with his personal shooting style and stance.  

 

S/ 4.2.6.6         At no time whether holstered or otherwise may a loaded pistol point rearwards.

 

S/ 4.2.6.7         Whilst holstered, the trigger of the pistol must be covered.

 

S/ 4.2.6.8         The suitability, position and compliance will be tested at Equipment Control, and may be re-examined at any time during practice and competition.

 

Regards,

S

 

 

Load too many pellets in Air Pistol

 

Dear sir,

 

Re your excellent revision of the teaching of air pistol rules to the multitude, I have now come to the place of loading two pellets into an air pistol, a situation dear to my heart as I experienced this situation I think it was at an South Pacific Championship in Christchurch and certainly a (or the) top Australian shooter, a long time ago. I am fairly certain it was an evening shoot at some strange "off range" location, and I think he had fired the pistol.

 

It had never happened previously to me and as the only judge present a immediate "judge’s" decision was made to cancel the target and replace it with a new one as I considered that BOTH pellets would have been affected by the double mass and neither would have hit in the position of a single pellet; AND IT WAS NOT SOMETHING WHICH ANY SANE PERSON WOULD DO DELIBERATELY. My recollection is that my decision was accepted by all concerned.

 

I now come to my current problem - My copy of the ISSF Rules, confirmed by reference to the copy on the ISSF web site a few moments ago does not give the option of "firing the shots" when the situation is detected before the pistol is fired. Rule 8.4.3.1.1.1 - "If the shooter is aware of the situation he must ......has a problem. A range Officer must then supervise the unloading of the pistol and no penalty will be incurred. No extra time ......."

 

Would you please enlighten me, just in case it happens to me again????

 

Response to Load too many pellets in Air Pistol

1.       Detected before the shooter fires the shot(s)

Shooter may ‘unload’ – though this is not expanded on…. The usual rod down the barrel to clear the pellet/s, if this is not achievable within a reasonable time (e.g. nobody has a suitable ‘rod’  readily available) then;

I personally would accept a range official directing the shooter to fire the shot/s AT THE TARGET (for safety), and annul the target.  This would be within the intent of 8.4.3.1.1.1

 

2.       Detected after the shooter fires the shot/s – as per rules

 

Regards

S

 

 

‘Coated’ projectiles

Hello Spencer,
I hope all is well with you all at the NRC.
I got a sample of a .38 cal 148 hollow base swaged lead wadcutter which is electroplated with copper. The question obviously is will it be legal for service match,WA1500 etc. This product almost totally eliminates lead exposure [95%].

Your verdict would be appreciated, if you want a sample I have one left which I could cut in two length ways.
Cheers

Response to ‘Coated’ Projectiles

 

‘Gilded’, ‘washed’, and ‘plated’ projectiles have been around in one form or another for some time (including .22 rimfire), utilising zinc, cadmium, copper, etc. 

 

The question of determining what is a ‘lead’ projectile, and what is ‘jacketed’ sometimes gets to be a fine line.

Some time back, Les Spurrier came up a fairly simple test; haw difficult is it to scratch through the coating?  If the coating can be easily scratched off they have been acceptable; if not, not acceptable

 

This then brings up the definition of ‘easily scratched off’.  In the past, Les and I have used a fairly basic application of dragging the blade of a pocket-knife along the projectile in question and evaluating how easily the lead is exposed.

 

Suggest you try this yourself before sending a ample.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Spencer

 

Note – this one is still being ‘mulled over’; the sample forwarded does not pass the ‘easily scratched off’ test.

 

 

25M ISSF – when must the shooter be at the READY

 

Can you please clarify and answer the following; as it has caused some discussion between coaches and Judges:

In Centre-fire/Sport Rapid Fire Stage & Standard pistol (20 & 10) where shooters choose to rest their pistol/hand on the bench; then at the call of "ATTENTION" and facing away of the targets, the shooter lifts off the bench up to their approximate aiming area (i.e. aligning their sights & position & completing a full lift), then lowers the pistol to the "READY" position before the target faces.

 

Is this allowable?

 

Response to 25M ISSF – when must the shooter be at the READY

 

Well!  Hello to an oldie, but a goodie (along with determining the 45° in the Ready Position, and shooters standing too close to the edge of the firing bench/table)!

 

1.       What are the applicable rules (I have underlined the important words):

 

The Ready Position

8.6.1.3

In the 25 m Rapid Fire Pistol Event, the 25 m Pistol and 25 m Center Fire Pistol Rapid Fire Stages and the 25 m Standard Pistol 20 seconds and 10 seconds series, shooting must start from the READY position. In the READY position, the shooter's arm must point downward at an angle of not greater than 45 degrees from the vertical, but must not be pointed at the ground within the forward edge of the firing point. The arm must remain stationary in this position while waiting either for the appearance of the target or, when electronic scoring targets are used, for the green light(s) to come on.

8.6.1.4

If a shooter raises his arm too soon, or does not lower it sufficiently (see 8.5.2.5 and 8.6.1.3) in the 25 m Rapid Fire Pistol Event or in the Rapid Fire Stage of the 25 m Pistol or 25 m Center Fire Pistol Event, or in the combined 20 seconds and 10 seconds stages of the 25 m Standard Pistol Event he must be warned by a Jury Member (see 8.5.2.5), and the series must be recorded and repeated. Etc. …

RFP

8.6.4.8.5

…At the command “START” the target timer mechanism must be started. The shooters must be in READY position at the end of the countdown 1…

8.6.4.8.6

Before each series the shooter must lower his arm and adopt the READY position. The shooter's arm must remain stationary before the green lights come on, or the targets appear (see also 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3).

‘Sport’ / CF Rapid Fire Stage

8.6.4.9.3.4

Before each shot the shooter must lower his arm and adopt the READY position. His arm must remain stationary before the green light comes on, or the target appears (see also 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3).

8.6.4.9.3.5

The pistol must not be rested on the bench, or shooting table, during the series.

Standard

8.6.4.10.4

Before each series except in the 150 second series the shooter must lower his arm and adopt the READY position. His arm must remain stationary before the green light comes on, or the target appears (see also 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3).

 

2.       What do these rules mean (and intend!)

 

When does the shooter have to come to the Ready Position for the start of a series?

Nowhere do the rules require the shooter to come to the Ready Position immediately the RO calls ‘ATTENTION”; nor has there been for many years.

 

May the shooter ‘rest’ the pistol on the firing bench/table while waiting for the command ‘ATTENTION’?

Nowhere do the rules for ‘Sport’ / CF / RFP prohibit the shooter from resting the pistol on the table/bench while waiting for the RO’s command ‘ATTENTION’.  There are rules about the direction of the pistol (8.2.5.1, 8.6.1.2 ) and when the pistol may be put down (8.2.5.6), but nothing to prohibit ‘resting’.

 

The ‘remain stationary’ bit

·         The rules do require the shooter to be in the Ready Position before the target/s appear, or the green light comes on (the count ‘1’ for RFP)

 

·         The rules do require the shooter to remain stationary in the Ready Position: BUT…

§  The intent IS that the shooter comes from a stationary ‘Ready Position’ to raise the pistol to the target; i.e. not gain any advantage by starting to raise the arm above the required 45° too soon, nor gain an advantage by having the arm in upwards motion even though it is still below 45° when the target/s begin to face.

§  The intent IS NOT that the shooter has to be absolutely motionless for any given period of time (however short) before beginning to raise the arm after the targets begin to face, or the green light comes on

 

3.       A personal example, or two

 

Center Fire Pistol – Rapid Fire Stage:

·         I shoot revolver in Centre Fire, and I do not use a stopwatch to check when the minute to load is about to expire (as a bonus, I am not hassled if a RO is a second or two out on timing the ‘minute’)

·         I am one of those shooters who do not take anywhere near a minute to load and prepare for a Rapid Fire Stage series (some do, I don’t)

·         I typically dry-fire on the empty chamber during the time before ‘ATTENTION’: I then rest the pistol on the firing bench/table (with due care to the direction of the pistol) – in all this I am not infringing any rules.

§  Sometimes when using this procedure I get myself ready for the command ‘ATTENTION’ by taking a last sight picture and coming to the Ready Position before the RO gives the command

§  Sometimes I am a second or two late:  I know that there should be 7 seconds between the command ‘ATTENTION’ and the targets facing, or the green light comes on.
This is plenty of time to start the breathing sequence, cock the revolver, take a sight picture, and come to the Ready Position before the targets face, or the green light comes on

 

This is also duplicates the procedure I use for subsequent shots for the series – follow through, cock the revolver, take a sight picture, and come to the Ready Position before the targets face, or the green light comes on

 

Rapid Fire Pistol:

·         I do not use a stopwatch to check when the minute to load is about to expire

·         I do not take anywhere near a minute to load and prepare

·         I then rest the pistol on the firing bench/table (with due care to the direction of the pistol)

·         With only 3 or 4 seconds between ‘ATTENTION’ and ‘1’, I try to be taking a final sight picture as the RO calls ‘ATTENTION”.  I do not need to rush getting to the Ready Position; if the RO is giving the commands at a steady, normal pace it is only a gentle lowering of the arm to be in the required position at the required time.

Again, in all this I am not infringing any rules.

 

4.       It’s allowable (provided there are no problems with the direction of the pistol)

 

 

Re order of fire for barricade series – Service and wa1500

 

Hello,

 

with regard to service pistol and wa1500 matches….

 

in those series that have a left and a right barricade involved, I see at various times and places they are printed in reverse.

 

Is there a requirement to shoot either one first, or can the two barricade sides be in either order ?

 

(e.g. 25 yd service pistol…prone, sitting, kneeling, right barricade, left barricade –  and for the wa1500…kneeling, left barricade, right barricade)

 

many thanks

 

Response re order of fire for barricade series – Service and wa1500

 

Service Pistol first:

·         For the 50 yards ‘stage’ the barricade series must be in the stated order.

·         For the 25 yards barricade ‘stage’ with both left and right (series 3 and 4) the rule is S/SU 6.3.4.5 …6 shots each at targets 1 and 2 (or vice versa) in 35 seconds. For this ‘stage’, the shooter may fire them in either order.

 

1500 Matches:

In the WA1500 Course of Fire “…Order of matches, stages & positions - order of matches and positions may not be changed…”.  I.e. the barricade series must be in the stated order.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Spencer

 

Re: with the new rule (2005) re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the re-shoot?

 

with the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the re-shoot?

 

Response re with the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the re-shoot?

 

My advice around the traps is to treat the (new rules) first malfunction as if it were the second malfunction (old rules).

 

Re: can you shorten the cylinder on a 25 Yard service pistol?

 

Response re can you shorten the cylinder on a 25 Yard service pistol?

 

The short answer is no.

 

In the 2005 rules;

 

Rule s25/4.1.12

The pistol must not be specifically chambered for wadcutter ammunition. It must accept and operate with commercially available round nose cartridges.

Note:
Pistols either chambered to accept only wadcutter ammunition or special cartridges developed to use round nose projectiles in wadcutter chambers are not eligible for this definition.

 

In the previous rules;

4.2.2

The pistol must not be specifically chambered for wadcutter ammunition. It must accept and operate with commercially available round nose cartridges. Pistols either chambered to accept only wadcutter ammunition or special cartridges developed to be used with round nose projectiles in wadcutter chambers are not eligible for this definition. No restriction is placed on revolvers with respect to ammunition type.

No modifications are permitted to the length of revolver cylinders.

 

Re: 5-shot Air Pistols

 

I have a Steyr LP50 5 shot air pistol. What I would like to know is, when the pistol is measured (i.e. placed in the equipment control box) does the magazine have to be fitted?  The main cause for concern is the overall width with the magazine in place exceeds 50mm.  Without the magazine in place the pistol easily conforms to normal limits.

 

Also if the pistol does not comply can it still be used at the nationals?

 

Response re 5-shot Air Pistols

 

1/ The magazine does not have to be fitted to the pistol for the measuring box (though it is part of the overall 1500g weight).

 

2/ regarding the general question about compliance, the short answer is no.

 

Regards,

Spencer

 

 

Re electronic hearing protection

 

As an official the problem I have is how to determine if all electronic ear protectors are within the rules. I do not have the technical knowledge to check the receiving and or sending capabilities of the ear protectors. Also I have no way to determine to if a shooter is turning up an electronic device to pick the sound of a particular individual that may be coaching from behind the line. Unless of course I stand right behind a particular shooter and we all know how much a shooter likes it when the officials seem to be paying particular attention to them. The perception at times is as important as the reality. The fairest way to apply the rules is what has been done to date, which is to eliminate the electronic ear protectors. I, as an official do not want to be on the line and get into a discussion about why one particular brand of electronic ear protection is allowed while I will not allow the other shooters to use theirs. So in short until the ISSF comes out and tells us to allow all the electronic ear protectors you will have to decide if you are prepared to be questioned and disrupted when you are trying to shoot well. Also be sure to bring extra ear protectors, if or when the jury makes a decision against the electronic ear protectors based on information they have at a particular match, you will want to be ready to shoot wearing your regular ear protectors. Grant

 

Response Re electronic hearing protection

 

There are a lot of things for a range official to worry about while supervising a range section - I would suggest that these need to be prioritised.

After safety, then comes compliance with the regulations.
Even with compliance, some matters are more 'important' than others.

Remember that coaching is allowed during ISSF competitions, just that it is not allowed on the firing line (7.9.5, 8.9.5, 9.9.2, 10.9.5). Coaching outside that permitted by the rules is arguably one of the minor matters.
In practice, where 'illegal' coaching is going on it is not normally a Range Officer who detects this (unless outstandingly blatant), more likely it will be the CRO or a Jury member (or a team official from another team).
If a RO detects 'subtle' coaching, has that RO been paying full attention to the line of shooters, or been letting attention stray?

At a World Cup, World Championships and the Games we do NOT check earmuffs to see if they have a receiving device fitted.
With modern technology, a receiver can easily be built into an earplug - what next; body scans for embedded microchips?

Life is too short!

Regards to all,

Spencer

 

 

 

Re ‘blinders’ for ISSF competitions

Hi Spencer

a number of people in Victoria have seen the ISSF site and the changes made to Side Blinders and their size etc. and are now asking will this apply to the 2004 PA nationals.

 

Your thoughts please.

 

Response re ‘blinders’

 

From the NRC website "These rules will NOT be enforced at PA competitions.  However, all members of the HP and PATS squads are recommended (at this time) to comply.  When requested, the NRC will assist by applying these regulations to members of the HP and PATS squad."

 

 Spencer

 

(for more information click here)

 

Re: Tennis elbow & support bands on the arm

 

Hi Spencer,

 

That question has arisen again and I need to confirm with you.

 

One of our members is having problems and is wearing a band below his elbow (shooting arm) and was wanting a ruling before shooting at xxx competition next week.  He is currently having physio and whom states it is a constrictive band.

 

Do I tell him it is OK or allow the referee and organising secretary sought it out on the day.

 

Maybe this is a question you can put on the web site eventually.  I think you know my thoughts on this.

 

Answer to Tennis elbow & support bands on the arm

 

The following is for competitions up to and including PA Nationals;

 

NRC policy for all PA matches is that bands (e.g. elasticized support) on the arm are permitted, provided there is NO SUPPORT AT THE WRIST.

 

This does not imply that competitors at competitions at a higher level (World Cups, World Championships, etc,) would be subject to the same policy.  Certainly for ISSF Championships at some competitions, Juries have given differing rulings.  Shooters going to this level of competition should not expect any exemption/leniency.

 

Spencer

 

 

Re: What’s happening to Rapid Fire Pistol

 

What’s happening to Rapid Fire?

 

Answer to What’s happening to Rapid Fire Pistol

 

In short, the ISSF is recommending a number of changes to the Rapid Fire Pistol match from 2005; these include:

·         The pistol specifications will be as for the Standard Pistol (.22 Long Rifle, no wrap around grips, no barrel porting),

·         The target appearance changes; the scoring rings stay the same, but the black comes back to 200 mm and the horizontal white lines go,

 

At the August 2003 PA Mid-year meeting it was resolved that:

 

Pistol Australia will officially adopt the new ISSF 25 m Rapid Fire rules to be introduced on 1st January 2005.  This means that the match will then be shot with the .22lr Standard Pistol.  Accordingly, as of that date the (now) existing rules for Rapid Fire will be superseded and not supported at a national level”

 

This does NOT mean that Rapid Fire (the match) is being dropped from the PA Nationals competition programme!  It does mean that at the 2005 Nationals the rules will require .22lr Standard Pistol.

 

 

 

Re: Loading procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder:

 

I was the RO (qualified) for the XXX Black Powder Championships. The competition had gone without a hitch until the last 25 metre rapid fire detail.

 

Prior to the event I had confirmed with the duty judge about the interpretation of rule 6.4.3.1. Our club decided to enforce this rule for reasons of "it is the rule" and in case of an accident involving police and or insurance. The particular part of the rule I wanted clarified by Chalky was "The loaded pistol must not be taken to the firing line prior to the Range Officer giving the command "Cap Pistols". He informed me that the rule as it read was correct and did not require clarification.

During each Rapid Fire preparation time I announced I would be enforcing this rule and advised that no pistols were to go forward until "Cap Pistols". I had no complaints from any shooters (there were 3 judges and a couple of range officers shooting in our events) either during the preparation time or the competition series until the last detail. When the shooter in question (he was also a judge but was not acting in this capacity) had completed his loading he took his gun forward to the firing line. I reminded him that I had said this was not to be done but he responded by saying that "we always bring the gun forward as he had done and the way I wanted it done was stupid". (or words to this affect.) Chalky (although he was in this case a shooter) reminded the other shooter that my ruling was correct. Although the shooter was not happy about this the event finished without further incident.

 

I agree with this shooter statement that this "is often the way it is done". Some bring guns/cylinders forward whilst range staff are forward, some do it after the range officer has "cleared the range" after the return of the range staff whilst others wait for "Cap Pistols". We are living in a world of litigation these days as well as the constant monitoring by the anti gun people. It appears to me that if there was an accident the first thing that would be asked was "what is the rule and was this rule followed?".

 

I request the NRC provide me and the black powder shooters with a statement concerning "Loading of pistols for the rapid fire stage of BP 25 Metre".

 

Answer to loading procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder:

 

The handling of a pistol at the firing line is not permitted while anybody is forward of the firing line (no matter how safe the individual competitor may think the pistol is)!

 

PA BP Rule 6.4.3.1 has been provided as an exemption under specific circumstances to Rule 2.0.6 and to Rule 2.0.9.

 

Rule 2.0.6 “Pistols may be loaded only on the firing line and then only after the appropriate command or signal is given (See also Rule 6.4.3.1)”

 

Rule 2.0.9 “Handling pistols is not permitted when operating personnel are forward of the firing line except under special circumstances. (See also Rule 6.4.3.1).”

 

Rule 6.4.3.1 enables considerable time saving in the Rapid Fire stage of 25 m Black Powder by providing a safe procedure for scoring of targets to proceed in conjunction with the shooters in the same range section loading, instead of waiting till the down-range area is clear of personnel.

 

This safe procedure requires observance of one of the most basic safety rules (irrespective of the event involved), that NO ONE handles a firearm at the firing line while personnel are forward of the firing line.   As range officials we must ensure safe conditions; as shooters we have a responsibility to our sport to also ensure the appearance of safe conditions. 

 

 

The provision of “…As each competitor completes the loading, the loaded pistol is placed on the loading table in the uncapped condition…” and of “…The loaded pistol must not be taken to the firing line prior to the Range Officer giving the command 'CAP PISTOLS'…” in Rule 6.4.3.1 is an integral part of the procedure and not open to interpretation!

 

Before bringing the pistol from the loading table the shooters must comply with the conditions in 6.4.3.1 until the Range Officer has ensured the range section is ‘clear’ and announced “CAP PISTOLS”.

·         “…The pistols may be loaded up to, but not including the capping of the pistol…” and

·         “…All competitors must use these (i.e. loading tables) if provided and they must be positioned so they are facing in a direction that will cause no concern to officials, other competitors or spectators….

 

This is now covered in the 2005 PA Black Powder rules and on the Black Powder page



Re:  Reshoot after a Non-allowable Malfunction

 

Spencer,

At a recent Standard Pistol match, one of the shooters had a non-allowable malfunction with four (4) shots fired.  The Range Officer made the shooter take the (five shot) reshoot.  Is this correct?

 

Answer to Reshoot after a Non-allowable Malfunction

 

There is no requirement for the shooter to take the reshoot!  The ISSF Rules use the words “…may…” and “…permitted…”, (8,8.3.6.6.1, 8.8.3.6.2.1, 8.8.3.7)

 

Invariably, if the shooter takes the reshoot (and he can) under these conditions he will only make his score for the series worse; certainly it cannot be improved.

 

The Non-allowable malfunction is scored as a ‘zero’.  As far as the Register is concerned the shooter has fired five shots (the four fired shots plus the ‘zero’ for the non-allowable malfunction).

 

The same situation applies in all the 25 m competition series (Standard, ‘Sport’, Centre Fire, Rapid Fire). 

 

Note there is now (2005) no re-shoot for a non-allowable malfunction

 

 

Re: Checking trigger weight

 

Hi,

Would you be kind enough to explain to me the correct method for checking trigger weight.

 

I have seen two totally disparate methods used and in spite of many years experience I am now confused as to what the correct method is.

 

The two methods I have seen are:

 

1.    The weight is placed on a table, the pistol is moved in such a way that the trigger midpoint is directly under the knife edge and the pistol is then slowly lifted. If the trigger is able to lift the weight clear of the table and hold the weight without firing, the trigger is passed.

 

2,    The weight is placed on a piece of paper which has a bulldog clip (or similar) on one end and this weighted end is hung over the edge of the table/bench. The trigger is positioned as above and the pistol is slowly lifted. If the trigger supports the weight for a sufficient period to allow the weighted paper to fall free, the pistol is passed, whether the trigger fires immediately after the paper falls or at some later stage.

 

Your advice would be greatly appreciated

 

Answer to Checking trigger weight

 

Method 1 is correct.

 

Method 2 is an imprecise way of measuring the coefficient of friction between the table and the paper.  It has nothing to do with the trigger weight.

 

Spencer

 

 

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