|
items on this
page:
Commands after ‘STOP…UNLOAD’
‘Casing’ Pistols
WA1500 - Load when changing position
Use of luminous and/or fibre
optic sights
Number
of rounds loaded – International 1920 Match
WA1500
Grip Safeties
Position
of 10m paper targets in the target carrier
WA1500
- Reloading when changing positions
25 Yards BP RF Stage without loading benches
Sight Ribs
/ 25 Yards Service Pistol
Holster
Safety
Holster Belt Loops
Load
too many pellets in Air Pistol
‘Coated’ projectiles
25M
ISSF – when must the shooter be at the READY
Re: order of fire for barricade
series – Service and wa1500
Re: with
the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the
re-shoot?
Re: can you shorten the
cylinder on a 25 Yard service pistol?
Re: 5-shot Air Pistols
Re electronic hearing
protection
Re ‘blinders’ for ISSF
competitions (see also latest on blinders)
Re: Tennis elbow &
support bands on the arm
Re: What’s happening
to Rapid Fire Pistol REVISED
Re: Loading
procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder: REVISED
Re: Reshoots after a Non-allowable Malfunction REVISED
Re:
Checking trigger weight
Commands after ‘STOP…UNLOAD’
Spencer,
there have been some questions about range commands in service pistol which
I am not qualified to answer.
After "unload"
is called at the completion of the match, what if any, are the remaining
commands/instructions given by the RO ?
Regards,
Response:
With the PA Service group of events, the last command
is ‘STOP ... UNLOAD’. As with any other event, on completion of the
‘stage’/event there is then an individual inspection of the firearms
(and notification of any infringements in the string) for each of the
shooters in the relay, but no further formal commands.
Regards,
Spencer
Fibre optic inserts in sights
Hi Spencer
I regard to wa1500
“Open sights” can fibre optic inserts be used?
Regards
Response:
The ‘short answer’ is yes’.
The ‘longer answer’ is:
·
Shooters should be aware that Tritium inserts have some health
concerns and are banned in some EU countries (due to OHS concerns)
·
This goes further than only the WA1500 events: fibre optic inserts are
allowed in any event (subject to any ‘Production’ categories that may be
applicable)
(I cannot resist the desire to comment from a coaching
POV:
1.
Fibre-optic inserts undoubtedly have a place for use in low-light and
close-range personal defence situations – these are not the situations
encountered in PA events
2.
Fibre-optic inserts in the rear sight would be counter-productive for
target use)
Spencer
‘Casing’ Pistols (7 mar 09)
Hi Spencer,
For the purposes of
"When/where may a pistol be taken out of its case?"
(http://www.nrc-pa.com/issf.htm#_When/where_may_a),
does a fully enclosing pistol "glove" qualify as a
"case"?
In other words, is
it acceptable practice for a shooter, having had their pistol 'cleared to
remove' by the RO, to:
- place the pistol in a 'glove' that,
when zipped or otherwise fastened, fully encloses the pistol;
- zip the 'glove' up with the pistol
inside;
- take the 'glove ' (with the pistol
inside) to a larger case on the range but behind the shooter's bay; and
- without removing the pistol from the
'glove', place the 'glove' in the other case and secure the case before
removing it from the range?
Response:
No caveats - yes.
Spencer
WA1500 - Load when changing position
Dear Spencer,
I have a question if you could answer it please.
Under the WA1500 rules and European accepted practice
(NRA PPC too) when moving positions, it is allow reload in either position,
before or after moving. It is not stipulated.
I am told we are
insisting on the reload to be done in the new position. Is this right?
I thought the intent with international matches was to
use the international rules for operational aspects with perhaps local or
admin items covered with local regulations.
Response:
The
requirement for PA ‘service’/WA1500 events is for the shooter to change
position with a visibly empty firearm, i.e. ‘change position – and then
load’.
While
the PA Service events and WA1500 have their origins in various Police and
Services events, they are civilian target events.
From
memory, for some Police and Services events (such as the Dunlop Shield) ‘load
– then change position’ is the required procedure: presumably to replicate
the situation in a fire-fight. Our events have
no such aspirations, real or implied.
The
‘load – then change position’ procedure was eliminated from the PA events,
even in the formative stage of the development of the PA Service Event:
·
Primarily as unsafe
for most target shooters, and
·
Having
no rationale in a civilian target event.
The
‘change position – then load’ required for PA events is not in conflict with
the WA1500 rules, and will not cause any disadvantage for PA shooters
competing internationally in WA1500..
Spencer
Use of luminous and/or fibre optic sights
Can luminous and/or fibre optic sights
be used in PA events?
Response
Re inquiry on use of TruGlo
tritium, tritium/fiber optic and fiber optic handgun sights in PA events
Sights
incorporating various ‘light gathering’ inserts have been around for many
decades.
Tritium
inserts are the combination of Tritium (a radioactive isotope of hydrogen)
and a phosphor to provide a light emitting insert – many luminous
applications are in use (e.g. luminous watch dials, various novelty items,
etc.) are produced using this combination.
It should be noted that there are a number of safety concerns
relating to Tritium/phosphor devices.
There is a ban in several EU countries on the inclusion of
radio-active materials into common goods like watches, etc. and in these
countries tritium sights are forbidden to sell, to own, to use, to import and
to export: this would preclude their use by an Australian competitor at any
competition within these countries.
I
offer no advice on the suitability for PA competitions of sights
incorporating inserts of light transmitting or generating materials, other
than to suggest that they can always be covered with
sight black.
The
manufacturer’s illustrations of the sights do not appear to have any
adjustments for windage or elevation and this
aspect might be of concern to some Firearms Registries.
 
Compliance with the relevant competition rules
of ‘open sights’ incorporating light gathering and/or luminous inserts.
ISSF Pistol
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the ISSF pistol
rules.
PA Service Pistol / Service Pistol
Unrestricted / 25 Yards Service Pistol
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the PA ‘Service’
rules.
PA Black Powder
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the PA Black Powder
rules.
IMSSU Pistol
·
Production
I am
unaware of any ‘Production’ pistol used for IMSSU that incorporates these
sights, and any replacement sights would need to comply with the Production
class rules
·
Unlimited
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the IMSSU pistol
rules.
·
Field Pistol
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the IMSSU pistol
rules.
International 1920 Match
·
Open
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the Bianchi pistol
rules.
·
Metallic Sight
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the Bianchi pistol
rules.
·
Production
These
sights would only be compliant for a pistol or revolver
which is, or has been, a catalogue item readily available to the
general public equipped with these sights.
WA1500
·
150-shot events
Technically there
is no reason why these sights would be in conflict with the WA1500 rules.
·
60-shot Distinguished
Revolver
These
sights would only be compliant for a pistol or revolver
which is, or has been, a catalogue item readily available to the
general public equipped with these sights.
·
60-shot Distinguished
Semi-automatic
Open
sights from any manufacturer are acceptable provided they of similar style to
the original. Whether the use of
inserts could comply with “…similar style to the original…” would be a matter
for the WA1500 to resolve: none were presented at
the 2007 World Championships for this category with this type of sight
inserts.
·
48-shot events are
not included as these are not PA events at this time.
Spencer
Tweedie
NRC
Director
Number of rounds loaded – International
1920 Match
I am going to shoot NRA 1920 matches somebody brought up a
good point
Are you limited in how many rounds you can load in your
gun?
I am using a Smith and Wesson 686 plus which is a 7 shot
revolver can i
load all the cylinders ?
I was sure you could but somebody told me i am limited to 6
Response
There is no limit on the number of rounds you can load; indeed, some semi-auto shooters load 10 in each
magazine.
Regards,
Spencer
WA1500
Spencer
I recently got hold of a copy of the NRA Rules pertaining
to the 1500 match.
Two things stood out-(1) skid shots were allowed (within
generous parameters), and (2) there did not appear to be any provision
for penalties for foot faults, etc.
Was this the case in the recent Nationals, or were these
transgressions treated as per Service Pistol?.
Response to WA1500
In
order:
1. One of the major problems is that there are not yet any
‘complete’ WA1500 Rules. Further the NRA rulebooks are not as specific as we are
accustomed with other shooting events.
2. Skid shots are as for other NRA-based events; i.e., 1.5 x
bullet diameter. (i.e. use the NRA-style overlays for scoring shot values and
skid shots)
3. Procedural Penalties, including Foot Faults are -10 (X)
These
were the procedures for the Nationals
Regards,
Spencer
Could you let me know ASAP, as
another competition 1500 Match is programmed to be shot
in conjunction with the ASG.
Grip Safeties
Spencer
In regard to SA
grip safeties, I had the idea that for 1920, PA was using the same rule
as for Service Match.
Which is, as I was aware, safety de-activated
, eg. by pining,
not taped down.( this is for within Aust. )
Am I wrong & PA has adopted NRA all safeties must
work?
Response to Grip Safeties
PA took this up with our insurers, and has not been able
to resolve the insurance issues.
In
absence of any clear indication that the insurance will cover any disabled
manufacturer’s safety feature (in this case the grip safety on 1911 type
frames), PA has no option other than to continue with the requirement for
1920 Match (introduced as from 1 Jan 2006) that all safety features be
operational.
Regards,
Spencer
Position
of 10m paper targets in the target
carrier
I have heard a rumour that a number of Air pistol shooters that when using
wind-back target carriages
are placing another target (unused
or old
sighter) behind
the competition target and raising
the competition target up
higher in the holder so
as to get the base of the target away from any
distracting view of the target
carriage base.
I thought that the practice of putting a target behind the
competition
target was
eliminated a few years ago, but apparantly is
creeping back again
(noticed at Aus Cup I). Rule 6.3.5.1.1 "....no deviations in shooting
distances and target specifications..." and of course
the general rule of
"no advantage..."
Your advice and comments
please.
Position
of 10m paper targets in the target
carrier
Hi,
(for
better, or worse) Accepted
international ISSF practice has
been to allow shooters to arrange 10m paper targets to suit
- e.g. many rifle shooters put the target in rotated 45 degrees, and many pistol
(and some rifle) shooters
add a strip at the bottom.
Regarding
6.3.5.1.1, I don't think the thickness on
one card would make a difference to the shooting
distance, and as for target specifications 6.3.2.6 refers
to the 'minimum visible size of target card'.
The
only problem with this practice has been with shooters 'adjusting'
the target carrier to accept the double target thickness and or hold the card in the higher position. This does
not always go down well with the
poor sods
that have to maintain the range equipment.
In short, lots
of things in relation to
rules are worth worrying about -
provided the shooter/s do not damage the target carriers, this
is not one of them.
Regards,
Spencer
WA1500 - Reloading when changing positions
Spencer,
With regard to the WA 1500 match, what is the current ruling (if any)on
reloading positions? As you know, in the PA Service Match, the
competitor has to unload in the
"old" position and then
move to the "new" position,
where he is to reload. I am in the position
of being a member of a club that shoots
the Police & Services Match,
in which we carry out the complete reload in the "old" position, so
I have to be VERY careful when I shoot
at other clubs!
Regards
Response to WA1500 - Reloading when changing positions
While
the World Association
1500 website gives no indication in this
area, certainly for the Australian
introduction of the 150-shot
matches, “…When changing position, the pistol
must be obviously ‘clear’”, i.e. as
for the PA Service matches. This
has been set
out in the PA RO Guides for
WA1500.
The
difficulty of the difference between the ‘Police & Service’ and ‘PA
Service’ procedures when changing
position has
been a long standing
one (I remember it well).
The PA
Service matches are civilian in
nature; our normal condition for pistols is
unloaded until needed, for ‘Police & Service’ the normal condition is loaded.
The different procedures
reflect this background.
Regards,
Spencer
25 Yards BP RF Stage
without loading benches
In Black Powder 25m rapid fire the new rules state;
'When using separate tables for loading - at the call of
"Assume the Ready (position I assume) wait 30 seconds and then call
"Attention" and activate.
When not using separate tables for loading - at the call
of "Assume the Ready (position I assume again) wait 15 seconds and then
call "Attention" and activate.
What has the position of tables, or using separate tables
or not, have to do with the amount of time before calling
"Attention" and activate.
I would appreciate clarification on this matter. Thank you
Response to 25 Yards BP RF Stage without
loading benches
1. I must apologise for not answering
the first e-mail (it came in on my laptop while away from home and I did not
flag it for reply when I got back home)
2. Change to commands for RF Stage of
25m Black Powder applies to both ‘at the bench’ and ‘separate tables behind’
When
all shooters have loaded capped, placed their pistol in a safe condition on
the bench, and stood back from the firing line,
“ASSUME
THE READY”
After 30 seconds,
“ATTENTION”
and activate the targets
Regards,
Spencer
Sight Ribs / 25 Yards
Service Pistol
With regard to the Service 25 yard match (formerly short
barrel) there seems to be some controversy over the matter of equipment.
Could you please advise if rib sights may be fitted to
custom made 25 yard Service guns?
Rib sights are a full length
sight similar to those manufactured by Aristocrat.
There are several members of the club looking to have guns
built and clearly they would like an interpretation
of the rule before committing large sums of money on a gun that may end up
being illegal.
Your early advice would be appreciated.
Response to Sight Ribs
When
the 25 Yard Service Pistol rules were changed to reflect the changes to
Australian firearms legislation, many of the previous rules on barrels were
no longer applicable as there were a number of ‘heavy’ barrelled revolvers
available ex factory.
Provided
S25/ 4.1.4 Only open sights are allowed, and S25/ 4.1.4.1
Original factory pattern sights only are allowed, are met there is no
problem with sight ribs.
Regards,
Spencer
Holster
Safety
Hello,
could you please tell me where i can find answers to holstered safety issues 1- placing
mag in pistol while holstered. 2- after series leaving slide open in holster. 3- loading mags
while people forward of line.
thank you.
Response to Holster Safety
You do not specify which
holster match the questions relate to - given that holsters are used in a number of PA events, there is no ‘one’
answer to questions 2 and 3.
1-
Placing mag in pistol while holstered.
The
short answer is no.
Service
Pistol:
S 2.6 Loaded Pistols may be holstered only during and
in accordance with the course of fire and under the direct command of the Range Officer.
I.e.
by implication from “…loaded pistols may be holstered…”,
the pistol is loaded before holstering – not after.
Service
Pistol Unrestricted and 25 Yards Service Pistol:
SU/S152.6 Loaded
Pistols may NOT be holstered at any time.
Inserting
a magazine would be considered loading the pistol,
even if the magazine was empty.
International 1920 Match:
Shooters
reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before
any personnel go forward for target changing.
The pistol is loaded before holstering, and not touched until the next
series commences.
WA1500:
As for
Service Pistol, there is a ‘LOAD’ command and shooters load and holster. Service Pistol rule S 2.6 can be taken as applying.
2-
After series leaving slide open in holster.
Service
Pistol / Service Pistol Unrestricted / 25 Yards Service Pistol / WA1500:
I can
see no safety problem with having the pistol with the slide open in the
holster between the command ‘UNLOAD’ at the end of a series and the next
command to ‘LOAD”. Convenience would
be another matter - I would not as the pistol could get dirt, lint, etc. in
the action, and it would be a nuisance.
International 1920 Match:
Shooters
reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before
any personnel go forward for target changing
3- Loading mags while people forward of line.
Service Pistol / Service Pistol Unrestricted:
S/SU/ 6.2.2 Before
the beginning of each subsequent stage the shooter must be allowed sufficient
time to rearrange his equipment and reload magazines or speed loaders.
While
the rules allow time before each ‘stage’ I can
see no safety problem with loading magazines wile range personnel are forward
of the firing line.
25 Yards Service Pistol:
S25/ 6.3.1.1
The competitor places only the correct number of rounds
that are required for a particular stage, in a pocket (one only, and the same pocket throughout the
course of fire). The pocket must be
standard for the garment worn, not an addition to accommodate ammunition for
this competition.
No. Magazines are loaded during the course of
fire.
International
1920 Match / WA1500:
Shooters
reload and re-holster immediately after each series, and complete this before
any personnel go forward for target changing
Holster
Belt Loops
What is the requirement on belt loops for holster matches,
& where do I find them?
Response re Holster Belt Loops
The
requirements for belt loops for PA Service Pistol were
dropped several years ago when PA adopted the same requirements as for
the Bianchi Cup competition.
The
current Service Pistol holster equipment rules
are listed below; while not word-for-word, they can
be taken as applying to WA1500 and International 1920 Match. While not separately mentioned, the belt
for the holster obviously must be suitable to ensure that the holster is
practical, safe, serviceable.
Note:
S/
2.6.2 Shooters must have
successfully completed the PA safe handling holster course and have
possession of a current proficiency card
S/
4.2.6.1 Holsters must be
practical, safe, serviceable, and suit the pistol used.
S/
4.2.6.2 Cross draw and
shoulder holsters are prohibited.
S/
4.2.6.3 Tie down rigs,
visible or otherwise, are prohibited.
S/
4.2.6.4 If a retention
device is used to pass a holster test, then the
retention device must be used throughout the match.
S/
4.2.6.5 Unsafe Holsters:
Match
Officials are required to prohibit the unsafe use of
any holster by any competitor. Therefore, in choosing a holster, and the
position and manner in which it will be worn, a competitor should give due
regard to the safety regulations in order to ensure that his choices are
safely consistent with his personal shooting style and stance.
S/
4.2.6.6 At no time whether
holstered or otherwise may a loaded pistol point rearwards.
S/
4.2.6.7 Whilst holstered,
the trigger of the pistol must be covered.
S/
4.2.6.8 The suitability,
position and compliance will be tested at Equipment Control, and may be
re-examined at any time during practice and competition.
Regards,
S
Load too many
pellets in Air Pistol
Dear sir,
Re your excellent revision of the
teaching of air pistol rules to
the multitude, I have now come to the place of loading two pellets into an
air pistol, a situation dear to my heart as I experienced this situation I
think it was at an South Pacific Championship in Christchurch and certainly a
(or the) top Australian shooter, a long time ago. I am fairly certain it was an evening shoot at some strange
"off range" location, and I think he had fired the pistol.
It had never happened previously to me
and as the only judge present a immediate
"judge’s" decision was made to cancel the target and replace it
with a new one as I considered that BOTH pellets would have been affected by
the double mass and neither would have hit in the position of a single
pellet; AND IT WAS NOT SOMETHING WHICH ANY SANE PERSON WOULD DO DELIBERATELY.
My recollection is that my decision was accepted by
all concerned.
I now come to my current problem - My copy of the ISSF Rules, confirmed by reference to the copy on the
ISSF web site a few moments ago does not give the option of "firing the
shots" when the situation is detected before the pistol is fired.
Rule 8.4.3.1.1.1 - "If the shooter is aware of the situation he must ......has a problem. A
range Officer must then supervise the unloading of the pistol and no penalty will be incurred. No extra time ......."
Would you please enlighten me, just
in case it happens to me again????
Response
to Load too many pellets in Air Pistol
1.
Detected before the
shooter fires the shot(s)
Shooter
may ‘unload’ – though this is not expanded on…. The usual rod down the barrel
to clear the pellet/s, if this is not achievable within a reasonable time
(e.g. nobody has a suitable ‘rod’
readily available) then;
I
personally would accept a range official directing the shooter to fire the
shot/s AT THE TARGET (for safety), and annul the target. This would be within the intent of
8.4.3.1.1.1
2. Detected after the shooter fires the shot/s – as per rules
Regards
S
‘Coated’ projectiles
Hello
Spencer,
I
hope alls well with you all at the NRC.
I
got a sample of a .38 cal 148 hollow base swaged
lead wadcutter which is electroplated with copper.
The question obviously is will it be legal for service match,WA1500 etc. This product almost totally
eliminates lead exposure [95%].
Your
verdict would be appreciated, if you want a sample I have one left which I could cut in two length ways.
Cheers
Response to
‘Coated’ Projectiles
‘Gilded’,
‘washed’, and ‘plated’ projectiles
have been around in one form or another for some time (including .22
rimfire), utilising zinc, cadmium, copper, etc.
The question of
determining what is a ‘lead’ projectile, and what is ‘jacketed’ sometimes
gets to be a fine line.
Some time back,
Les Spurrier came up a fairly simple test; haw
difficult is it to scratch through the coating? If the coating can be easily scratched off
they have been acceptable; if not, not acceptable
This then
brings up the definition of ‘easily scratched off’. In the past, Les and I have used a fairly basic application of dragging the blade of a
pocket-knife along the projectile in question and evaluating how easily the
lead is exposed.
Suggest you try
this yourself before sending a
ample.
Hope this
helps,
Spencer
Note – this one
is still being ‘mulled over’; the sample forwarded does not pass the ‘easily
scratched off’ test.
25M ISSF – when must the shooter be at the
READY
Can you please clarify and answer the following; as it has
caused some discussion between coaches and Judges:
In Centre-fire/Sport Rapid Fire Stage
& Standard pistol (20 & 10) where shooters choose to rest their
pistol/hand on the bench; then at the call of "ATTENTION" and
facing away of the targets, the shooter lifts off the bench up to their
approximate aiming area (i.e. aligning their sights & position &
completing a full lift), then lowers the pistol to the "READY"
position before the target faces.
Is this allowable?
Response to 25M ISSF – when must the shooter be at the
READY
Well! Hello to an oldie, but a goodie (along with
determining the 45° in the Ready Position, and shooters standing too close to
the edge of the firing bench/table)!
1.
What are the
applicable rules (I have underlined the important words):
The
Ready Position
8.6.1.3
In
the 25 m Rapid Fire Pistol Event, the 25 m Pistol and 25 m Center Fire Pistol Rapid Fire Stages and the 25 m
Standard Pistol 20 seconds and 10 seconds series, shooting must start from
the READY position. In the READY position, the shooter's arm must point downward
at an angle of not greater than 45 degrees from the vertical, but must not be pointed at the ground within the forward edge
of the firing point. The arm must remain stationary in this position
while waiting either for the appearance of the target or, when
electronic scoring targets are used, for the green
light(s) to come on.
8.6.1.4
If a shooter raises his arm too soon, or does not lower it
sufficiently (see 8.5.2.5 and
8.6.1.3) in the 25 m Rapid Fire Pistol Event or in the Rapid Fire Stage of
the 25 m Pistol or 25 m Center Fire Pistol Event,
or in the combined 20 seconds and 10 seconds stages of the 25 m Standard
Pistol Event he must be warned by a Jury Member (see 8.5.2.5), and the series
must be recorded and repeated. Etc. …
RFP
8.6.4.8.5
…At
the command “START” the target timer mechanism must be
started. The shooters must be in READY position at the end of the
countdown 1…
8.6.4.8.6
Before
each series the shooter must lower his arm and adopt
the READY position. The shooter's arm must remain stationary
before the green lights come on, or the targets appear (see also 8.6.1.2 and
8.6.1.3).
‘Sport’
/ CF Rapid Fire Stage
8.6.4.9.3.4
Before
each shot the shooter must lower his arm and adopt
the READY position. His arm must remain stationary before the
green light comes on, or the target appears (see also 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3).
8.6.4.9.3.5
The
pistol must not be rested on the bench, or shooting
table, during the series.
Standard
8.6.4.10.4
Before
each series except in the 150 second series the
shooter must lower his arm and adopt the READY position. His arm must
remain stationary before the green light comes on, or the target
appears (see also 8.6.1.2 and 8.6.1.3).
2.
What do these
rules mean (and intend!)
When
does the shooter have to come to the Ready Position for the start of a
series?
Nowhere
do the rules require the shooter
to come to the Ready Position immediately the RO calls ‘ATTENTION”; nor has
there been for many years.
May
the shooter ‘rest’ the pistol on the firing bench/table while waiting for the
command ‘ATTENTION’?
Nowhere
do the rules for ‘Sport’ / CF /
RFP prohibit the shooter from resting the pistol on the table/bench while
waiting for the RO’s command ‘ATTENTION’.
There are rules about the
direction of the pistol (8.2.5.1, 8.6.1.2 ) and when
the pistol may be put down (8.2.5.6), but nothing to prohibit ‘resting’.
The
‘remain stationary’ bit
·
The rules do require the shooter to be in the Ready
Position before the target/s appear, or the green light comes on (the count
‘1’ for RFP)
·
The rules do require the shooter to remain
stationary in the Ready Position: BUT…
§ The intent IS that the
shooter comes from a stationary ‘Ready Position’ to raise the pistol to the
target; i.e. not gain any advantage by starting to raise the arm above the
required 45° too soon, nor gain an advantage by having the arm in upwards
motion even though it is still below 45° when the target/s begin to face.
§
The intent IS
NOT that the shooter has to be absolutely motionless for any given period of time (however short)
before beginning to raise the arm after the targets begin to face, or the
green light comes on
3.
A personal example, or two…
Center Fire Pistol
– Rapid Fire Stage:
·
I shoot revolver in
Centre Fire, and I do not use a stopwatch to check when the minute to load is
about to expire (as a bonus, I am not hassled if a RO is a second or two out
on timing the ‘minute’)
·
I am one of those
shooters who do not take anywhere near a minute to load and prepare for a
Rapid Fire Stage series (some do, I don’t)
·
I typically dry-fire
on the empty chamber during the time before ‘ATTENTION’: I then rest the
pistol on the firing bench/table (with due care to the direction of the
pistol) – in all this I am not infringing any rules.
§
Sometimes when using
this procedure I get myself ready for the command ‘ATTENTION’ by taking a
last sight picture and coming to the Ready Position before the RO gives the
command
§
Sometimes I am a
second or two late: I know that there
should be 7 seconds between the command ‘ATTENTION’ and the targets facing,
or the green light comes on.
This is plenty of time to start the breathing sequence, cock the revolver,
take a sight picture, and come to the Ready Position before the targets face,
or the green light comes on
This
is also duplicates the procedure I use for subsequent shots for the series –
follow through, cock the revolver, take a sight picture, and come to the
Ready Position before the targets face, or the green light comes on
Rapid
Fire Pistol:
·
I do not use a
stopwatch to check when the minute to load is about to expire
·
I do not take
anywhere near a minute to load and prepare
·
I then rest the
pistol on the firing bench/table (with due care to the direction of the
pistol)
·
With only 3 or 4
seconds between ‘ATTENTION’ and ‘1’, I try to be taking a final sight picture
as the RO calls ‘ATTENTION”. I do not
need to rush getting to the Ready Position; if the RO is giving the commands
at a steady, normal pace it is only a gentle
lowering of the arm to be in the required position at the required time.
Again,
in all this I am not infringing any rules.
4. It’s allowable (provided there are no problems with the
direction of the pistol)
Re
order of fire for barricade series – Service and wa1500
Hello,
with regard to service pistol and
wa1500 matches….
in those series that have a left
and a right barricade involved, I see at various times and places they are
printed in reverse.
Is there a requirement to shoot either one first, or can
the two barricade sides be in either order ?
(e.g. 25 yd service
pistol…prone, sitting, kneeling, right barricade, left barricade – and
for the wa1500…kneeling, left barricade, right barricade)
many thanks
Response
re order of fire for barricade series – Service and wa1500
Service
Pistol first:
·
For the 50 yards
‘stage’ the barricade series must be in the stated order.
·
For the 25 yards
barricade ‘stage’ with both left and right (series 3 and 4) the rule is S/SU
6.3.4.5 …6 shots each at targets 1 and 2 (or vice versa) in 35 seconds. For
this ‘stage’, the shooter may fire them in either order.
1500
Matches:
In the
WA1500 Course of Fire “…Order of matches, stages & positions - order of matches
and positions may not be changed…”. I.e. the barricade series must be in the
stated order.
Hope
this helps,
Spencer
Re: with the new rule (2005)
re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a
malfunction in the re-shoot?
with
the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in the
re-shoot?
Response re
with the new rule re 1 malfunction, what happens if you have a malfunction in
the re-shoot?
My
advice around the traps is to treat the (new rules)
first malfunction as if it were the second malfunction (old rules).
Re: can you shorten the
cylinder on a 25 Yard
service pistol?
Response re can you shorten
the cylinder on a 25 Yard service pistol?
The
short answer is no.
In the 2005 rules;
Rule
s25/4.1.12
The
pistol must not be specifically chambered for
wadcutter ammunition. It must accept and operate with commercially available
round nose cartridges.
Note:
Pistols either chambered to accept only wadcutter ammunition or special
cartridges developed to use round nose projectiles
in wadcutter chambers are not eligible for this definition.
In the
previous rules;
4.2.2
The
pistol must not be specifically chambered for
wadcutter ammunition. It must accept and operate with commercially available
round nose cartridges. Pistols either chambered to
accept only wadcutter ammunition or special cartridges developed to be used
with round nose projectiles in
wadcutter chambers are not eligible for this definition. No restriction is placed on revolvers with respect to ammunition type.
No modifications are permitted
to the length of revolver cylinders.
Re:
5-shot Air Pistols
I have a Steyr LP50 5 shot air pistol. What I would like to know
is, when the pistol is measured (i.e. placed in the
equipment control box) does the magazine have to be fitted? The main cause for concern is the overall
width with the magazine in place exceeds 50mm. Without the magazine in place
the pistol easily conforms to normal limits.
Also if the pistol does not
comply can it still be used at the nationals?
Response
re 5-shot Air Pistols
1/ The
magazine does not have to be fitted to the pistol
for the measuring box (though it is part of the overall 1500g weight).
2/
regarding the general question about compliance, the short answer is no.
Regards,
Spencer
Re
electronic hearing protection
As
an official the problem I have is how to determine
if all electronic ear protectors are within the rules.
I do not have the technical knowledge to check the receiving and or sending
capabilities of the ear protectors. Also I have no way to determine to if a
shooter is turning up an electronic device to pick the sound of a particular
individual that may be coaching from behind the line. Unless of course I stand right behind a particular
shooter and we all know how much a shooter likes it when the officials seem
to be paying particular attention to them. The perception at times is as
important as the reality. The fairest way to apply the rules is what has been done
to date, which is to eliminate the electronic ear protectors. I, as an
official do not want to be on the line and get into a discussion about why
one particular brand of electronic ear protection is
allowed while I will not allow the other shooters to use theirs. So in
short until the ISSF comes out and tells us to allow all the electronic ear
protectors you will have to decide if you are prepared to be questioned and
disrupted when you are trying to shoot well. Also be sure to bring extra ear
protectors, if or when the jury makes a decision against the electronic ear
protectors based on information they have at a particular match, you will
want to be ready to shoot wearing your regular ear protectors. Grant
Response
Re electronic hearing protection
There are a lot of things for a range official to worry about while
supervising a range section - I would suggest that these need to be prioritised.
After safety, then comes
compliance with the regulations.
Even with compliance, some matters are more 'important' than others.
Remember that coaching is allowed during ISSF competitions, just that it is not
allowed on the firing line (7.9.5, 8.9.5, 9.9.2, 10.9.5). Coaching outside
that permitted by the rules is
arguably one of the minor matters.
In practice, where 'illegal' coaching is going on it is not normally a Range
Officer who detects this (unless
outstandingly blatant), more likely it will be the CRO or a Jury member (or a
team official from another team).
If a RO detects 'subtle' coaching, has that RO been paying full attention to
the line of shooters, or been letting attention stray?
At a World Cup, World
Championships and the Games we do NOT check earmuffs to see if they have a
receiving device fitted.
With modern technology, a receiver can easily be built
into an earplug - what next; body scans for embedded microchips?
Life is too short!
Regards to all,
Spencer
Re ‘blinders’ for ISSF competitions
Hi
Spencer
a number of people in Victoria have seen the
ISSF site and the changes made to Side Blinders and their size etc. and are
now asking will this apply to the 2004 PA nationals.
Your thoughts please.
Response re ‘blinders’
From
the NRC website "These rules will NOT
be enforced at PA competitions.
However, all members of the HP and PATS squads are recommended (at
this time) to comply. When requested, the NRC will assist
by applying these regulations to members of the HP and PATS squad."
Spencer
(for
more information click here)
Re:
Tennis elbow & support bands on the arm
Hi Spencer,
That question has arisen
again and I need to confirm with you.
One of our members is
having problems and is wearing a band below his elbow
(shooting arm) and was wanting a ruling before shooting at xxx
competition next week. He is currently having physio and whom states it is a constrictive band.
Do I tell him it is OK or allow the referee and organising
secretary sought it out on the day.
Maybe this is a question you can put on
the web site eventually. I think you know my thoughts on this.
Answer to Tennis elbow &
support bands on the arm
The following
is for competitions up to and including PA Nationals;
NRC policy for
all PA matches is that bands (e.g. elasticized support) on the arm are permitted, provided there is NO SUPPORT AT THE
WRIST.
This does not imply that
competitors at competitions at a higher level (World Cups, World
Championships, etc,) would be subject to the same
policy. Certainly
for ISSF Championships at some competitions, Juries have given differing
rulings. Shooters going to this level
of competition should not expect any exemption/leniency.
Spencer
Re: What’s happening to Rapid Fire Pistol
What’s happening to Rapid Fire?
Answer to What’s happening to
Rapid Fire Pistol
In short, the
ISSF is recommending a number of changes to the Rapid Fire
Pistol match from 2005; these include:
· The pistol specifications will be as for the Standard Pistol (.22
Long Rifle, no wrap around grips, no barrel porting),
· The target appearance changes; the scoring rings stay the same,
but the black comes back to 200 mm and the horizontal white lines go,
At the August 2003 PA
Mid-year meeting it was resolved that:
“Pistol
Australia
will officially adopt the new ISSF 25 m Rapid Fire rules
to be introduced on 1st
January 2005. This means that
the match will then be shot with the .22lr Standard
Pistol. Accordingly, as of that date
the (now) existing rules
for Rapid Fire will be superseded and not supported at a national level”
This
does NOT mean that Rapid Fire (the match) is being
dropped from the PA Nationals competition programme! It does mean that at the 2005 Nationals the
rules will require .22lr Standard
Pistol.
Re: Loading procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder:
I
was the RO (qualified) for the XXX Black Powder Championships. The
competition had gone without a hitch until the last 25
metre rapid fire detail.
Prior to the event I had
confirmed with the duty judge about the interpretation of rule 6.4.3.1. Our
club decided to enforce this rule for reasons of "it is the rule"
and in case of an accident involving police and or insurance. The particular
part of the rule I wanted clarified by Chalky was "The loaded pistol
must not be taken to the firing line prior to the Range Officer giving the
command "Cap Pistols". He informed me that the rule as it read was
correct and did not require clarification.
During
each Rapid Fire preparation time I announced I would
be enforcing this rule and advised that no pistols were to go forward until
"Cap Pistols". I had no complaints from any shooters (there were 3
judges and a couple of range officers shooting in our events) either during the preparation time or the competition
series until the last detail. When the shooter in question (he was also a
judge but was not acting in this capacity) had completed his loading he took his gun forward to the firing line. I
reminded him that I had said this was not to be done but he responded by
saying that "we always bring the gun forward as he had done and the way
I wanted it done was stupid". (or words to this
affect.) Chalky (although he was in this case a shooter) reminded the other
shooter that my ruling was correct. Although the shooter was not happy about this the event finished without further incident.
I agree with this shooter statement that this
"is often the way it is done". Some bring
guns/cylinders forward whilst range staff are forward, some do it after
the range officer has "cleared the range" after the return of the
range staff whilst others wait for "Cap Pistols". We are living in
a world of litigation these days as well as the constant monitoring by the anti gun people. It appears to me that if there was an
accident the first thing that would be asked was "what is the rule and
was this rule followed?".
I request the NRC provide me and
the black powder shooters with a statement concerning "Loading of
pistols for the rapid fire stage of BP 25 Metre".
Answer
to loading procedures, PA 25 m Black Powder:
The
handling of a pistol at the firing line is not permitted while anybody is
forward of the firing line (no matter how safe the individual competitor may
think the pistol is)!
PA
BP Rule 6.4.3.1 has been provided as an exemption under
specific circumstances to Rule 2.0.6 and to Rule 2.0.9.
Rule
2.0.6 “Pistols may be loaded only on the firing line and then only after
the appropriate command or signal is given (See also Rule 6.4.3.1)”
Rule
2.0.9 “Handling pistols is not permitted when operating personnel are
forward of the firing line except under special circumstances. (See also Rule
6.4.3.1).”
Rule
6.4.3.1 enables considerable time
saving in the Rapid Fire stage of 25 m Black Powder by providing a safe
procedure for scoring of targets to proceed in conjunction with the shooters
in the same range section loading, instead of waiting till the down-range
area is clear of personnel.
This
safe procedure requires observance of one of the most basic safety rules (irrespective of the event involved), that NO
ONE handles a firearm at the
firing line while personnel are forward of the firing line. As range officials
we must ensure safe conditions; as shooters we have a responsibility to our
sport to also ensure the appearance of safe conditions.
The
provision of “…As each competitor completes the loading, the loaded pistol
is placed on the loading table in the uncapped condition…” and of “…The
loaded pistol must not be taken to the firing line prior to the Range Officer
giving the command 'CAP PISTOLS'…”
in Rule 6.4.3.1 is an integral part of the procedure and not open to
interpretation!
Before
bringing the pistol from the loading table the shooters must
comply with the conditions in 6.4.3.1 until the Range Officer has ensured the
range section is ‘clear’ and announced “CAP PISTOLS”.
·
“…The pistols may be loaded up to, but not
including the capping of the pistol…” and
·
“…All competitors must use these (i.e. loading tables)
if provided and they must be positioned so they are facing in a direction
that will cause no concern to officials, other competitors or spectators…”.
This is now covered in the 2005 PA Black Powder rules and on the Black Powder page
Re:
Reshoot after a Non-allowable Malfunction
Spencer,
At a recent Standard Pistol match, one of the shooters had
a non-allowable malfunction with four (4) shots fired. The Range Officer made the shooter take the
(five shot) reshoot. Is this correct?
Answer to Reshoot after a Non-allowable Malfunction
There is no
requirement for the shooter to take the reshoot! The ISSF Rules
use the words “…may…” and “…permitted…”, (8,8.3.6.6.1, 8.8.3.6.2.1, 8.8.3.7)
Invariably, if the
shooter takes the reshoot (and he can) under these conditions
he will only make his score for the series worse; certainly it cannot be
improved.
The
Non-allowable malfunction is scored as a
‘zero’. As far as the Register is
concerned the shooter has fired five shots (the four fired shots plus the
‘zero’ for the non-allowable malfunction).
The
same situation applies in all the 25 m competition series (Standard, ‘Sport’,
Centre Fire, Rapid Fire).
Note there is now (2005) no re-shoot for a non-allowable
malfunction
Re: Checking trigger weight
Hi,
Would you be kind enough to explain to me the correct
method for checking trigger weight.
I have seen two totally disparate methods used and in
spite of many years experience I am now confused as
to what the correct method is.
The two methods I have
seen are:
1. The weight is placed on a table, the
pistol is moved in such a way that the trigger midpoint is directly under the
knife edge and the pistol is then slowly lifted. If
the trigger is able to lift the weight clear of the table and hold the weight
without firing, the trigger is passed.
2, The
weight is placed on a piece of paper which has a bulldog clip (or similar) on
one end and this weighted end is hung over the edge of the table/bench. The
trigger is positioned as above and the pistol is
slowly lifted. If the trigger supports the weight for a sufficient period to
allow the weighted paper to fall free, the pistol is passed,
whether the trigger fires immediately after the paper falls or at some later
stage.
Your advice would be greatly appreciated
Answer to
Checking trigger weight
Method 1 is
correct.
Method 2 is an
imprecise way of measuring the coefficient of friction between the table and
the paper. It has nothing to do with
the trigger weight.
Spencer
Top of
this page
|